Q: What brought you to our website? A:I was told to. I want armor. We spell it armour in Canada. Q: This recruitment process requires that we get to know you a little bit. Please tell us a little about yourself. A:I have 2 dogs and 2 kids. I am a high school teacher. Canadian teachers make way more than American teachers. Q: If possible, it would be helpful if you could tell us what Account Name you are using in-game, as many members on our site here have a different user name compared to their account name. This will allow us to know it is you. A:Snoovus Q: All members are expected to uphold respectful conduct when communicating with other players and guildmates. This applies to in-game situations, our website and on guild/GW2 related websites and message boards. Intolerance for others based upon religion / sexuality / gender / ethnicity / etc. is not welcome. We are a guild of HONOR and INTEGRITY, and we reflect that in all public forums. The general rule of thumb is to treat people how you would like to be treated in return. How do you feel about this? A:Obviously. Q: In-Game Guild Status - Guild Wars 2 will allow characters to switch between multiple guilds as they wish while playing the game. The OSD Division Leadership Council within the Guild Wars 2 game expect that you will focus your time and energy towards this guild alone and will keep your characters as members of the OSD. Therefore it is an expectation that you will be 'representing' the Order of the Silver Dragons at all times while playing in-game as a member of this community. With that said, there might be a feasible reason why an ‘alt’ character or an RP character should be in another guild. Special cases and requests will be handled on an individual basis. What are your thoughts on this? A: no thoughts. Q: Ventrilo is a communications tool that allows our membership to experience the full effect of being in a community-based gaming guild. If you feel alone in game and you don't feel that much is going on, or felt the scheduled event experience was lacking or not working as intended... it might just be because you aren't using the communications tools available to you.VENTRILO use will be 'Strongly Encouraged' for all players to actively use while performing normal game activities whenever you are playing in GW2. Even though it is not a requirement, it should be strongly considered for usage as a communications tool that allows our membership to experience the full effect of being in a community-based gaming guild. VENTRILO use can, and no doubt will be 'Mandatory' during organized guild events, such as Dynamic Content runs and meta-events/dungeons, WvW, sPvP, group or team meetings, as well as other types of scheduled events if the event coordinator advises of such. You don't have to speak if you don't want to, so long as you are on to listen to other members that might need help or guidance. With that said, we have several dedicated Vent rooms that allow you to sit quietly in peace if you so wish. All public discussion areas such as public vent channels are PG-13. Are you okay with our Ventrilo policies? A:sure Q: If you are accepted as a member of our guild, you will automatically be placed at our 'New Member' position within the game. Please be mindful that this is not a single-player RPG game, but a multi-wing online gaming community. You will be expected to communicate, interact and support your fellow guildies, as well as ensure that you follow our Charter of Excellence at all times. In order to show your allegiance or loyalty to our community, we will ask that you perform certain 'Community Quests' that give you the opportunity to communicate, interact and generally become a member of our community (don't worry, they are enjoyable tasks that allows you to get involved with our player-base). Once these 'Guild Quests' are resolved, you will be raised one rank level in-game which allows you to access all the benefits of our guild. Are you okay with this? A: sure. Q: We have found that guild members have a better gaming experience if they use the forums and the events calender. This allows you to get game information and join guildies in events as your real life time permits. Do you intend on being active on our website forums and events calendar? A: probably not to be honest. I have 2 young kids and don't have time. Q: Once you learn how, we would like you to create events or RSVP for other scheduled events as your real life schedule permits. What are your thoughts on this? A:won't do this. Q: Have you been playing MMO's for a while, or are you just getting started? A:I played GW1 and that is it. Does Baldur's Gate count? Q: What kind of character do you typically play? Tell us about your main character you envision, and please list any alts that you know you will be bringing into the guild as well. A:A variety Q: What type of playstyle do you enjoy the most? A: close combat Q: If you violate any rules defined within the gaming EULA, you will face disciplinary action up to and including removal from this community. Do you understand, and agree with this rule? A:yes Q: What time of day do you typically play? How often? A: evening. A few days a week. Q: Are you affiliated with any other guilds? A: No Q: How do you think you can best help this community? How can this community best help you? A:I am fun Q: OSD is generally a "casual, do it all" guild, meaning we welcome players from all playstyles and don't limit our focus to one playstyle in particular. We welcome PvPers, PvEers, Roleplayers, Crafters, etc. For example, while we may offer weekly raids, we are not a hardcore raiding guild that requires you to raid 5 or 6 nights a week. We also do not consider any one playstyle to be more important than another, all members of OSD are equal. For example, a hardcore PvPer will never be considered "more valuable" to the guild than a casual Roleplayer would be. Are you okay with this? Any additional thoughts on this topic? A:nope Q: With the previous question in mind...We will never force you to participate in any activity or event that falls outside your playstyle of choice. However, from time to time you may be asked to help the guild out if we are short a particular class, or just need to fill up an empty group spot. Are you okay with this? Any additional thoughts on this topic? A: nope Q: We do ask that you stay active on the guild website as much as possible. We don't expect anybody to become a forum junkie by any means. But we do expect our members to cast their votes on any polls we put up, give input in any posts we make asking for opinions, as well as chime in with your thoughts when other members open discussions. What are your thoughts on this? A: none at all Let the community chime in at this point. There might be a few questions. Here's a good opportunity to get to know us. We have some folks that post an intro and are never to be heard from again. This is a good indication to us that this player is not very forum active...not what we want!! So, we encourage you to keep tabs on your intro post in case a member has a question or comment for you. Or if you have any questions for us, feel free to post them up, and we will answer them as best we can.
Now, I have not yet been accepted into the guild, and I don't know what the expectations are for acceptance. But, I can tell that you probably did not put a lot of effort into writing this application.
You would be correct. Due to the lack of effort, this application is one we'll be forced to deny. If you wish to update it we can take another look.
Am I missing something about this application? All the questions appear to be answered sufficiently (at least as far as I am concerned). Is there an expectation to have a essay response? I can certainly read Snoovus' humor in the application. Also, what is the form of governance here and where is that documented? I have grouped with Snoovus in game before and have nothing but good things to say about my experiences. Can I vote with my personal experience and say that I would encourage membership based on my in game experience, or is it that someone can just flat out veto or dictate who can or cannot be a member. Please clarify, it's important for me to understand what kind of organization I am a member of. Finally, I think that the concept of asking someone to come to a web page and fill out a long questionnaire without consideration of in game experiences thus far is a big limiter in recruitment and might need some revision. I leave it to you officer types to figure that out but I'd like an answer to my above query by an officer of the meta guild.
I do believe they are currently talking about this between the officers, but I'll be honest here. The rest of the community do not know about his humor. We never met him. What most of us saw was rude and insulting.
That's kinda my point. Hoping to hear a response about governance and where it's laid out. I appreciate your letting me know Kriz, thanks.
http://silverdragons-lair.net/showthread.php?23057-Guild-Wars-2-Q-amp-A This is an example of a good application. The answers were not overly long but were informative. It allowed a total stranger (me) to learn a little bit about Carah and decide OSD would be a good fit. I expect the application will be accepted by a GW2 officer. As far as governance, we have a subforum that all division leaders and their officers use to discuss whatever issues or ideas that prop up. In this specific case, a thread was made about this application that everyone in that subforum could discuss if we would accept it or not. We do not know the people behind the application and depend on said app to learn about them. The application process has been part of the guild for a very long time and it's something the community takes seriously. Besides, I don't think Snoovus followed all the steps required to join. Specifically I found no permission requests to join the two groups needed to actually see the rest of the website. He also hasn't even been on since he made this application. Maybe he's a great guy to game with, but it really doesn't seem like he cares about joining the community/website.
So it's a bit like the masons? A subgroup gets together and discusses each applicant and gives a thumbs up or down in secret, and then fate is decided. So your post above where you said no was based on those conversations, right? I can appreciate traditions such as having the long form application process and flaming hoops to go through, but has anyone stopped to ask the question of why each of the questions and steps are in place and could it stand refinement. I'll let you guys hash that out, but to me it's a bit antiquated. In game and real conversations should carry some weight in the decision process. I am going to do some personal reflecting in the interim and be sure that I am comfortable with all of this. OSD in GW2 has managed to grow and maintain a presence that is well respected on our server. I am a bit saddened that there isn't the trust of the GW2 division that we respect that name too and wouldn't want anyone in the guild that would tarnish our reputation. Trust me, we have kicked people for doing stupid stuff in game and my expectation is that all this stuff you are concerned about is taken care of in game. You are just not here to see it. Honestly, when another game came out and there was a mass exodus of OSD members, I was really concerned that we were going to dissolve to nothing. I considered switching guilds and wondering if a multiple game guild was a good thing or not. But I stuck with it, and Kei and Derron have really done well in guiding the division and things have worked out thus far. Thank you for your responses, I do appreciate it.
It sounds like we have a difference in opinions about the application process. I don't see ours as long form or flaming hoops. I remember doing it myself and it took me 20 minutes when I was taking my time. I don't see that as asking for too much to join the community. It really doesn't have anything to do with trusting the GW2 division. I don't know Snoovus or realistically 95% of the GW2 members but I do know Keikami. I know she took a nearly dead division and got it up and running again. I trust her to keep the bad apples out of the guild. The application is more about letting the rest of the community get to know the individual. For many of us, this isn't just a gaming community of strangers. It's more like an extended family. Is it so bad to ask to get to know someone a little before letting them in?
The main thing is that this isn't an application for friendship, it's an application to join a community or organization. So, while personal vouches and conversations can certainly play a part, ultimately they're going to have to interact with the group as a whole (otherwise, why join a community? you can group and be friends without being a part of the guild, if guilds like this aren't your thing) and this application serves as that first interaction with everyone else and lets us get to know each other. Also, even if it sounds mean or impersonal, applications like this do serve as a litmus test. I do the same when hiring at work, and the benefits outweigh any evil by far. It's especially important here, when our officers and leaders aren't even getting paid for their time. In the grand scheme of things, requiring people to jump through a 10 minute hoop isn't that bad, and if it saves the officers headaches later on, I'm all for it. It's not a perfect system, but there's no such thing as a perfect system anyway. It really does come from a position of mistrust, if you really break it down. It would be wonderful if we could just open our doors to the gaming community and let everyone in and have a wonderful happy time, buuuut that's just not how the gaming community is XD 5 minutes in the public general chat channel is enough to confirm that! But sometimes, you have to do things you wish you didn't have to do, and you have to be practical and sometimes a little impersonal. I lock my doors at night and when I'm not home... even though I know 99% of people are honest and nice (we even accidentally left our garage door wide open for days with no cars out front once, and nothing was missing) but still, we lock the door and ask that people ring the doorbell if they want to come in. But if they do that, we're usually happy to entertain any guests! It's not perfect, but most people understand the necessary evils of our society and won't take it personally. (I should note that I'm not speaking for the leaders of OSD, just offering my perspective on applications from previous guild and workplace management experience)
As far as the app process goes I didn't see it long at all.. EVERY game I have played since UO and for EVERY guild I always had to fill out a app..it is a way of getting to know a little about someone because maybe not everyone will get the change to be on at the same time to play with said person.. I for one thought this was one of the shorter easier application processes I ever had. It is starting to prove my point that gamers are getting lazier and lazier..I also hear people complaining about camping a area for 30mins lol..I remember camping for a item for 8 hours lol
Perhaps flaming hoops is an exaggeration but when I joined, I was required to go to the calendar and schedule a guild event, I was required to do a pile of things that being an extrovert didn't trouble me at all. My wife would have walked away if she were to do it as she is very introverted. Perhaps that process has changed now, but I remember doing those things and wondering why. It was a bit more effort than 20 minutes to do all those things, I remember, but perhaps that's changed now. I am sure the desired impression wasn't to express mistrust of the GW2 division, but it sure felt that way to me which is one of the reasons I took time to post here.
Also to be completely honest I thought this app was a joke or spam at first..In my old guild we would get apps like these from BoTs and such hehe..
I believe you're talking about the rites of passage that the gw2 division has. That has to do with being promoted in-game, not being accepted into OSD.
Wish I saw it like that tbh lol I saw it as "I don't want to do that crap, but if I want armor and goodies so I'm forced to do it... meh I'll botch it up, who cares" And who takes OSD a bit more seriously as a community probably saw the same thing as me - thus the long conversation / time to decide what to do about it.
Sometimes the application for acceptance into a guild is all that an information-seeking potential new member can see due to having limited access. Back in my days of guild searching, I would look at the apps of others to get an idea of how serious the guild was and maybe even what type of members they wanted. So, in a way, these applications and how the guild responds to them are a representation of our guild. I enjoy humorous apps but it can back fire if the humor is only obvious to those already in the guild, as appears to be the case here.
Ok, in the app does the op say who said to and that I have player x to back me? That kind of info gets big pluses attached.
No, that is an incorrect representation of the sub forum and of this situation as it stands right now. You asked about governance in regard to applications and where you could voice your opinion about an applicant. That is all done right here in the Silver gates section. The community as a whole has a say when it comes to applicants. That is why this forum is open to everyone. The sub forum is where Leaders and Officers of each division voice opinions on topics that arise now and then. This particular application brought forth a question as to whether this particular person is a fit for the community as a whole. Not in the division they currently play in. That decision resides with the leaders and officers of that division. To answer this: I think Vastiner's example with Carah's application is perfect. No essays written, just short but informative answers that let the rest of the community know a little about you. I think even you learned a little about Carah, enough so to ask a couple question, no? That is the point of the application and also the reason for the initial reaction to this one. Short one word answers to every question really don't help the rest of us, who may not be playing with the applicant in game, know that person, even if just a small bit. You mentioned you saw Snoovus' humor in the answers. Since a good portion of the rest of us haven't had the pleasure of Snoovus' sense of humor it came off as crass, hence the initial reaction. Hope that helps explain some of what has been said here.
Since I have no access to that sub forum, that discussion as far as I am concerned is indeed secret. I do not believe that is a misrepresentation. As to the rest, perhaps he will revise his application, perhaps he won't, I am not him and cannot answer that. My opinion of the applicant does not appear to have done much to sway others, it's fine, I didn't think it would but I had to try to defend what I feel is a good person for the GW2 division.
